TLDR (or TLDW for the video): 

This conversation focuses on the growing importance of behavioral and emotional data in understanding and optimizing influencer marketing campaigns, particularly as social media platforms evolve and compete for user attention.

Whalar, a leading global influencer marketing agency, partnered with Element Human and Neuroinsight to develop innovative measurement techniques for influencer campaigns.They use neurological studies, facial coding, and emotion analysis to measure the effectiveness of influencer content compared to traditional advertising. Their research found that influencer ads are 277% more emotionally intense and 87% more memorable than TV ads.

Whalar developed an "effectiveness process" focusing on evoking emotions to build memory and drive action. The rise of TikTok prompted new research into its unique characteristics and effectiveness in the marketing mix. TikTok was found to be particularly effective at capturing attention, which is crucial in today's fast-scrolling environment. The study revealed that TikTok content can positively prime audiences for ads on other platforms like YouTube.

Whalar developed nine creative learnings for brands to succeed on TikTok, including using influencers to introduce branded messages. They've rapidly scaled its use of behavioral insights, testing over 500 pieces of content with 50,000 people in just one year. These insights are now being integrated into Whalar's strategic planning process, helping brands find emotional white space in their marketing.

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Influencer marketing doesn't always work. One of the biggest culprits? Forced product marketing. It's so tempting for companies to think, but what about our product - show more of our product! Show more of our brand! That's what we're paying for. And we all love our products, right? Hopefully? 

Turns out it's not that easy. If it was, probably all us (you reading it and me writing it) would be out of a job. Maybe it will be that easy for the omnipotent AI the future has promised us. I'd bet against that. Us humans are complex creatures and our advertising antibodies get stronger every year.

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A mentor once told younger me, don't lead with the product, lead them to the product. That's an apt axiom for what does work with creator marketing. Creators know their audience and they desperately want to help you achieve your goals. Let them do their thing! Trust, but measure :) 

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Full Transcript: 

[00:00:00] Matt Celuszak: Hello. Hello. Welcome to the webinar here. We're going to unlock the science of TikTok and influencer marketing. Today we're gonna talk about how behavioral insights can be used in new and integrated ways to help us understand the brand new media formats and channels that are coming our way. It is my pleasure to be inviting Chloe Ash, who is the Insights Director at Whaler here.

Whaler is a, it's a fascinating company actually. I mean, you know, influencer marketing was kind of a, you know, a very early thing for a lot of brands and it's where the kids hung out. And now it's a proper massively growing business. Can you give us a little bit of a background on Whaler and and and on yourself?

[00:00:49] Chloe Ashe: Yeah, of course. So nice to be here with you, Matt. But yeah, Whaler, as I said, it's the leading global influencer marketing agency. So it was set up approximately six years ago. Kind of one of the first really challenger brands in the space. And we're all very much about kind of liberating the creative voice, championing the creators themselves, and really encouraging brands to give them creative freedom and produce really great influencer content.

So that was kind of what our, our mission was based in. And it's only grown from there. And naturally that means that we need to move into. Really measuring the influence

[00:01:24] Matt Celuszak: of space. So I'd say, I mean, let's, let's dig into that a little bit because I mean, measurement in the influencer space, most of us are just only used to kind of clicks and conversions and whatnot or, you know, traditional brand studies.

What's the challenge that you were facing?

[00:01:42] Chloe Ashe: Sure. So I guess at the time when Whalar was set up, I mean, the influencer marketing agency was, marketing industry was very much in its infancy and there were options, you know, of how to understand how impactful campaigns were, as you mentioned, brandless studies, they're out there, but no one was really combining that with any data to explain why those campaigns are performing well, or maybe not performing so well.

So we wanted to not only help our clients. understand how the influence of campaigns were performing, but also help them understand why so that we could make recommendations and ensure that we were improving with every campaign that we do. And also to give us a load of data on what makes great influence in marketing, because we want to be constantly be learning and making sure we're ahead of the curve and doing what needs to be done to do well in this industry.

[00:02:29] Matt Celuszak: I mean, I love that. I think what really drew me to working with you guys, and you're one of the first people ever on our platform, but what really drew me to working with you is that RIP was really intended to also improve the participant experience of the audience experience. We have a pretty deep history with the BBC on doing that.

But but I really like how you were looking at kind of this clicking conversion market going. Okay, actually, there's a lot more context underneath this. How do we look for it? And how do we find it? So So my question leads on to why emotion behavior data? Why did you turn to behavioral insights?

[00:03:02] Chloe Ashe: Yeah, we obviously knew sort of from previous work that's been done that making people feel Something and advertising is far more likely to lead them to action So, you know if an advert, you know, whether it be traditional like a tv advert Or or a youtube advert or whatever advert you're watching if that makes you feel an intense emotion Whether it be positive or negative That association is likely to stick in your brain and then come to mind when you're in store and in front of that brand And if you you know, remember You have an intense positive emotion when you watch an ad for that brand.

You're more likely to pick it up and put it in your basket. And in traditional advertising, it can be really hard to create that emotional connection because ultimately you're a brand trying to talk to a human. And it can be hard to bridge that gap. It's not human to human connection. So we have this theory that influencer can be really effective at bridging that gap between the brand and the consumer because they already have that relationship with their follower.

So they can create that intense connection. positive emotional connection, which would result in [00:04:00] the higher memory encoding and ultimately drive someone into purchase. So we really wanted to prove this out before we started measuring our campaigns this way. But that was very much our theory.

[00:04:10] Matt Celuszak: It's going to say, I mean, talking about theories, behavioral insight is certainly there's, there's been folks out there looking at this type of methodology, calling it snake oil and stuff like that.

I mean, the theories are theories. And I think it's a, it's a, it's an amazing thing that you've been able to achieve here, but. How do you make sure that this is kind of grounded in science? How do you, how do you collect the data so that you can actually put some of those theories to rest?

[00:04:34] Chloe Ashe: Yeah, exactly. It can be tough when, when studying human behavior to, to say that this, you know, this stuff is real.

So we, we partner with two people. So obviously, But we also partner with Neuroinsight. So Neuroinsight are really there for sort of the deep truth, truthful data. So they allow us to measure actual responses to content. So Neuroinsight use this incredible technology that maps Human brains. And we are literally measuring the brain's reactions to content.

So there's no questions that are being asked. So you can't then challenge whether that response is truthful because it's literally the brain lighting up. It's not someone claiming that behavior. So they enabled us to prove out our theory on the effectiveness of influencer marketing and create what we call our effectiveness process.

But we also work with you guys at element human for our more ongoing Rapid and scalable measurement. I mean, brain data is great. It's hard to get people in a room to map their brains, and it's hard to do that on a big scale. And it's also sometimes hard to get to the detail that you want to get to.

So element human really help us learn with every campaign that we do to help ensure that we're best setting our clients up for success. And, and making it really scalable because we test so much content because we produce so many campaigns with our clients. So element human really stepped up and it enabled us to test our content, content on that much larger and more continuous basis.

[00:06:00] Matt Celuszak: Yeah, and thanks for bringing that in because the speaking to EEG and the brain and neuro kind of processing as a ground truthing technique, we totally agree there's there's a lot of really good. Like you said, it's uninfluenced signal. You're not asking people questions. You're not trying to ground truth around kind of subjective opinion.

This is a really, really interesting area. And and then some from from some of our prior work, we've also found that actually the intensity of emotion captured through body language is often correlated into the brainwave activity as well. Are you going to be able to share a little bit with us around?

Well, you can walk through the methodologies and then also share a little bit with us around kind of behavioral metrics.

[00:06:44] Chloe Ashe: Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, this, this shows kind of neuro insight and the tech they use. So you can see there kind of really how technical it is literally getting people in a room and mapping their brains.

And you can get to all sorts of, of measurement with that. So, you know, we can see when the brain is leaning into content, we can see how intense the emotional reaction is. We can see when the part of the brain that encodes things into memory is lighting up and we can also capture attentions as the part.

Of your brain that forms attention is that lighting up as well? So we can really get to kind of what each piece of content is doing which is amazing and obviously as we said grounded into truth but we work with I guess you guys to add that extra layer to that. And bring it a bit more to life in some more detail And then through what combining the two you can get some really really powerful insights, on the content.

So I think You

[00:07:41] Matt Celuszak: Well, yeah. And then, and then and then how else do you also help frame it up for brands as well?

[00:07:49] Chloe Ashe: We use you guys really to, to test our individual campaigns and see how they're performing. And what's really great is that you enable us to build these feeds and we can test [00:08:00] within. And so we can test with you on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, and we can get people into that environment where they feel like they're scrolling through their own feeds and really get as close to possible as, as if they were seeing this content in their own natural social media feed, which is great.

And on top of that. We are using some amazing technology with you guys, which all of our clients love, which uses the camera on their phones to literally kind of coat their faces and track how they're reacting to content so we can see when people are smiling or raising their eyebrows or frowning and really pinpoint the part of the video that's emotional.

And this is so important to us and to our clients. Because when you think how we mindlessly scroll through social media fees to actually get someone to move their face and to respond to a piece of content. It's really hard work. So when you can pinpoint and say, look what our creators have done at this point, you know, they've evoked an actual reaction in someone.

That's just amazing. And our clients love it. And then you can combine that with the eye tracking, the heat maps on the right hand side there. So you can actually see where they're looking when that reaction happens. You can get to so much detail through this. And our clients are always blown away by it.

[00:09:08] Matt Celuszak: Awesome. Now walk us through. This is I appreciate the walkthrough on the platform, how it's helped you from usability and a client perspective. Can you walk us through the Berkeley emotions that you use as well?

[00:09:19] Chloe Ashe: Yeah, of course. So this, this facial coding is great. As I said, it's amazing technology and helps pinpoint in the part of the video.

That's a motive, but a smile can mean many a thing. So we wanted to really get down to the detail of what those things are. emotions were that the content is evoking. So we partnered with the University of Berkeley who have kind of analyzed ton of human behavior and emotions and identified 33 emotions, both positive and negative.

It's meant to span the whole spectrum of everything that we can feel possibly as a human being. So through you guys, not only do we code facial expressions, but we also get really into the detail and we can see how our content is making people feel. Which again is really powerful, and it really helps us to kind of pinpoint the link between how you're making people feel and whether that's driving then people to action to purchase.

And we see it time and again with the content that we create when it's really emotional and it's evoking unique emotion, it will lead people to action and to purchase.

[00:10:18] Matt Celuszak: So you found a way to ground the theory around emotions and emotionality and the content, particularly in influencer marketing. You found a way to then capture and track that kind of at scale and extend that to a real world use cases in the natural environment.

And then further, you found a way to add a real depth into. I'm contrasting contextualizing what people think and take away from it. So we know you've run a lot of stuff. You've been up and running for a couple of years now. This is really cool. Do you have some insights to share with us around how you've been able to apply this around influencer marketing?

[00:10:56] Chloe Ashe: Of course, I want to go back and start at the very beginning of our journey into measurement, which was in 2019 when we conducted the first ever neurological study on the impact the influence of content has on the brain's audience. So this was with Neuroinsight, and I say back in 2019, and we were just looking to prove out our theory that influences are really effective at creating memorable and emotional ads.

And it absolutely came through in the data, We found the influence that as a significantly more memorable compared to TV and there are 277 percent more emotionally intense and 87 percent more memorable, and you can literally see it in the brains. They're lighting up to that pink and red and all that means the brain is really lighting up and responding to the content compared to the TV where it's not.

very much blue and green. And ultimately, what this did is it gave us our effectiveness process as a company. So this is what we shout about to all of our clients. And what you need to be doing when you're producing content is evoking emotions that will drive memory [00:12:00] and then lead people into action.

[00:12:03] Matt Celuszak: And how do you then articulate that back to clients?

[00:12:07] Chloe Ashe: So, you know, we shout about it in every deck. We really lead everything with emotions. And we wanted to then embed that into actually how we were reporting back to our clients as well. And so this is when we came to you guys. So we had this theory. We now know it's proven and it's grounded in real data.

But how can we then report back to our clients and ensure that we're doing this with every campaign that we do with them? And we work with you guys to create our brand uplift and creative reports that does this with every campaign that we do. The aim of these is the brand uplift report, which is very much about measuring impact of the campaign.

So giving our clients additional success, success metrics on top of those traditional performance KPIs like engagements and comments and that sort of thing. So here we're measuring things like awareness and opinion of the brand intent to purchase. But then our creative report is what's really, really unique.

Because that helps us understand the why behind the what. So this is where we delve into emotions and what's going on in the actual content that's driving the success that we see through the brand uplift reports. And we've worked so closely with you guys over the past sort of year and a half. I mean, as you know, Matt, to refine these and to make them as detailed as possible.

And it's been a real journey, but yeah, they are now really embedded into what we do here at Whalar.

[00:13:27] Matt Celuszak: I think one of the toughest challenges that we both faced was how do we get these proper environments up so that we could remove some of this research bias that goes on and being able to say, if you're going to track behaviors, you need to be behaviorally in the environment.

I wanted to actually just showcase kind of some of the work that we did because, because this came as a hot and fast request from, you know, how do we get into TikTok? I mean, TikTok came out of nowhere. All of a sudden, it's like the number one on the tip of every single brand. So, so walk us through kind of your thinking around that and how we unpack that and let's go into the science of TikTok.

[00:14:09] Chloe Ashe: Sure. So I mean, when I joined Whalar, which was August 2020, I went straight into these, doing these studies with you guys. And I would say we were, you know, 80 percent Instagram campaign. So we felt we could measure Most of what we did and then suddenly TikTok came from nowhere. We were moving across so many of our campaigns towards TikTok and we were suddenly in a position where we didn't have that environment to test.

So we came to you guys and we worked really closely together to build this TikTok environment, which looks incredible. It looks exactly like you're in the TikTok app. And this has just unlocked for us so much more opportunity to measure TikTok campaigns. And it's so interesting because it works. So differently to Instagram and there's so many nuances on on TikTok compared to Instagram and we're really starting to see that coming through in our data.

So I'm so pleased we were able to get this up and running react quickly to the rise of TikTok. I don't know what we'd do without it now.

[00:15:03] Matt Celuszak: I tell you there was a little bit of a love hate relationship with the developers on that one. They absolutely loved getting into the challenge of the problem, but they're sitting there, you know, juggling up all the growth that you have going on.

So really cool from that front. Are you going to share a little bit with us around the science of TikTok and how that's changing the game?

[00:15:19] Chloe Ashe: Definitely. So obviously this is one of our priorities to set up testing with you, but at the same time, we wanted to revisit Neuroinsight and move into sort of the next stage of the game.

of our neuro studies and create the science of TikTok. And so we really wanted to not, not say you need to be on TikTok and not be on Instagram anymore, not be on YouTube anymore. We really wanted to prove out that TikTok has a place in the marketing mix. I think brands are still a bit nervous about it.

It can be quite unpredictable as a platform. And so we wanted to just be able to say, you know, you need to be there now. And this is why it's essential in the marketing mix. We also wanted to unpack the power of TikTok because it's quite unique in an app. It's [00:16:00] very different sort of Instagram and YouTube and what it offers.

So we wanted to really get to the bottom of what the power was there. And then finally, we really wanted to help our clients understand how they can best set themselves up. to win on TikTok. There's all well and good telling them they should be on there, but we also need to kind of tell them how to set themselves up to win.

And so that was part of the study as well. And we got so many interesting insights and coming out of it. First one of which is really around Sort of attention and how incredible TikTok is at capturing that attention. You know, it's got full screen, it's sound on. People are so much less likely to be doing something else when they're on TikTok, so it's set up really well to capture attention.

And we saw a really lovely case study here with a piece of content created for Converse. So I'm just gonna try and play it. You guys, so you can see the video.

So it's a fun little video, you know, she's creative con best, but what she's done really well is she's used all the kind of tools that TikTok has given her. So she's overlaid her drawings, overlaid text, she's used full screen, she's used sound, and as a result, she's really capturing. The visual attention.

So from the brain measurement that we did, we could see that visual attention is 15 percent higher than the tick tock global average. We then also ran this content through with you guys to break that down and see how how it evokes emotions as well. So she captures that attention at the start. And then we see through the facial coding how throughout the video, these smiles build this yellow line builds as people are feeling happiness and that happiness is building throughout the video.

And she's evoking really unique emotions like aesthetic appreciation, inspiration, calmness, and adoration. So she's captured attention. She's evoking emotions. And as a result, she's getting higher than average brand recall at 55. 8 percent and ultimately a higher than average intense purchase at 48. 7%. So what that's giving us is a new stage in the effectiveness process.

So we're still very much wanting to evoke emotions, to build memory, to drive action, but in a world of nonstop scrolling, this capturing the attention part is now so key to the effectiveness process to create that lasting impact. As we say, TikTok is a really great kind of app to use that's set up inherently to capture that attention.

[00:18:46] Matt Celuszak: I mean, that's fascinating because we're starting to essentially then unbundle the top end of the funnel. Across a multi channel environment, which is I think totally, frankly, open for the taking in the market. Very, very interesting. And a lot of people on our webinar today will have heard about the attention economy over the last 2 days.

I'm sure it's a talk of the town if you will, but thank you very much for kind of lighting that up. So, so really, it's about just once somebody seen it, then we have to emotionally engage with it. To lock it into memory and then we can understand how it's going to drive action. And you've created a model in the workflow.

Very cool. So do you have any tips for the brands on the call?

[00:19:29] Chloe Ashe: I do so we obviously came up as well with nine creative learnings. So these are what we say you need to do to sort of go out and win on TikTok. Now there are nine here and they span a whole bunch of kind of different different areas.

So we're not saying to a brand, you need to go out and do every single one of these. But it's a great guideline and some really great tips in there on how to win. I mean, my personal favorite is all around kind of really using the influencer and the creator to deliver the first branded message.

That's number [00:20:00] three here. And it's all about, we really found that when you start a TikTok with a really hard sell for your brand, the brain just switches off. It leans back and it's not interested, and they'll scroll past you and they won't, you won't capture that attention and kick off the effectiveness process.

But when you bring in an influencer to sort of introduce the brand at the start and weave it into the story that they're going to tell you, the brain doesn't turn off and it actually does the opposite and leans in and will stay. And watch the rest of the TikTok and therefore you've got their attention and you can kick off the rest of the effectiveness process.

So creators are a really great tool to sort of mitigate the hard sell feeling that you can get from some branded content. We have a full nine. So if you want to learn more, just let us know.

[00:20:46] Matt Celuszak: Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. And we, we just jumped over a slide there that had some data. So for the junkies out here.

[00:20:53] Chloe Ashe: Yeah, so this is actually all around priming. So another part of the study, as I said, was sort of understanding how TikTok fits into the marketing mix and why it should be there. And the priming data is really, really interesting because we looked at. Campaigns that were on Tiktok and then also had another element, whether it be TV, Instagram or YouTube, and we had a cell of people who were looking at Tiktok first and then watching the same campaigns on these other platforms, and then a cell of people who were just watching the content on the other platforms.

And if you're comparing the reaction of the two, you can see the impact that Tiktok has when it's viewed first and before. You know, doing the same campaign on another platform. And for me, the really interesting one that came out here was the impact that TikTok can have on YouTube. And what we found was that the general attention part of the brain which measures sort of your want to reach out and grab something or touch something was lighting up a lot less when you've been primed with TikTok.

And what that meant is that people were, had that, didn't have that urge to reach out and skip a YouTube ad that they had before they'd been primed by TikTok. So I think we can all admit that we've been there just watching the countdown to skip a YouTube ad. And you know when you're doing that you're not really paying attention to the content.

But once someone had been primed by TikTok they're more likely to sit there and actually take the content in because they're not waiting to skip anymore, which is just so impactful.

[00:22:18] Matt Celuszak: Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. So this I mean, I think it also speaks to this kind of the simplicity of the click isn't really getting the context that's required for brands to play in the new battleground of a brand marketing across all these channels.

So, so this, this particularly offers a really unique approach to being able to connect the dots all the way from attention through to action. What's I mean, we look, we've been working together, like I said, only I'd say a short time in the words of business, but wow, have you pushed the system? So why don't you walk us through a little bit?

Because there's definitely folks on the call here who are considering behavioral insights and integrating them into their platform. But I think it's a bit of a transformation journey. We can both admit. There was a lot of key learnings for both sides on on how to stand up this platform capability for you, but but walk us through.

I mean, we've covered a lot today. So walk us through it.

[00:23:16] Chloe Ashe: Yeah, I mean, we were pretty demanding. We came to you. Things happen pretty fast at Wayla. You know, we work on a lot of campaigns. We had a lot of projects to get through, and you can see, This is just in the last year we've done 68 product projects with you, which means we've tested over 500 pieces of content on over 50, 000 people, which the scale of that is massive.

And, you know, We're only a team of three, our end you guys are still a startup yourself. So I think to be able to scale it this much, it was really what we needed. To be able to test this, this amount of content was so important to us. Because we just move so quickly and we're producing so much and we need to really keep up with that.

So yeah, I mean it's quite outstanding to see [00:24:00] it in numbers, isn't

[00:24:00] Matt Celuszak: it? It really is. We were reflecting on this. You and I were talking about this the other day. One of those, once you take a beat and look back and go, whoa. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. Just the type of throughput you're looking at. But also, I mean, it does start to transform.

You said three people on your side. What does that mean? You're supporting a commercial team. Really, this is there to support brands and their creative. What does that mean for somebody? So if you're an insights person, you're trying to adopt or transform your organization. What are the watchouts they're going to need to look for?

[00:24:38] Chloe Ashe: Yeah, and I mean, it was particularly tough for us because we're a creative business. We hire a lot of creative people. And if you've ever seen a whaler deck, it just looks beautiful and there's not a whole lot of numbers in there. And we're coming then as a data and an insight person to try and say, Hey, we've got all these cool numbers and try and kind of sell that not only internally, but externally to our clients.

It's a bit of a challenge. And so it really helped. With us and i'm working with you to kind of get the the visual stuff that really helps us in I mean I said it before but those facial coding videos and eye eye tracking videos They're the ones that get the gasps when we show them to both clients and internally, and it really helped us get the buy in to then kind of start talking about numbers a bit more and slipping them into more decks and getting a lot more backup from that perspective.

And as I said, we are only a team of three. So for us, kind of the ease of testing was really, really important because, you know, I'm setting up these studies. I'm reading the data. I'm putting it into decks and I'm presenting it back to clients. And we need that process to be turned around in two weeks or less.

So we rely on you guys to have. Kind of a really easy system to set them up and to be able to rely on you guys that those studies are going to be done and that the data is going to be pulled in a usable format as well. So, and the fact that, again, in a year, we've managed to test this much on such a small team size is amazing.

And then kind of finally, I guess, kind of getting this, we've got so much data. Now we've tested so much content with you. We're sat on so much information and we're now really starting to kind of drill down into that and see how we can use it to really help our clients moving forward. And we're particularly thinking about that now when it comes to strategy.

I mean, after a few months of sort of measuring our campaigns with you and understanding and how powerful the link With emotions are and emotions can really embedded in the way we talk about content with clients. And so we started to think about how can we start the conversation that we're having with our clients around emotions and not just end it there with these tests that we're doing with you guys.

And so we're really now starting to talk to our clients. about emotions when it comes to strategy. And we've created our emotional positioning analysis product, which really helps us ground the strategy that we develop for our clients on social and real data and real emotional data. And so it's a really Big kind of project that we run.

I mean, this is all about looking at competitor analysis, testing a ton of content from what our competitors are doing on social understanding what it is about their content that's helping them win or perhaps holding them back from doing well. And then we can sort of find the white space and no one's playing in.

That we can then build our strategy off of our brand. And this is kind of linking it back to scalability. This is where that's really important. We've done multiple projects like this now, but I think the biggest one, we were talking about it the other day, Matt, was over 108 pieces of content tested on over 2, 000 people, and we managed to do it in just over a week, which

[00:27:51] Matt Celuszak: I don't know

[00:27:52] Chloe Ashe: how it went.

[00:27:54] Matt Celuszak: Yeah, I remember that going through. And we were just sitting there, Going, [00:28:00] it's all going to work. It was it was I mean, early days, you know, startups are like that, but, but wow, have you really kind of put put everything to the test. But I think what's really fascinating is now the long term stuff that you're starting to see come out of it, how it's shaping strategy.

And, and I think it's just the magic that behavioral insights can bring to what people are saying, what people are doing, start to quantify it, but just integrating all these different methodologies into one, I think, brings it together. So, look, thank you so much for showcasing and sharing that. I hope everybody got a little bit out of it on the webinar.

We're going to be around for a few questions, so feel free to just type them in or give us a shout, but we'll now switch to Q and A. And of course if you need any of our contact details, just hit us up. Per the emails below. And yes, hello is the general email at element two. And but yes, I am usually the first person to answer.

So you can just ask for me by name. That's cool. Chloe. Thank you so much. Before we sign off here. I just want to I have a quick question. I mean, did you come from a traditional research world and you know, give us a little bit of a background on how this is like new for you?

[00:29:09] Chloe Ashe: Yeah, so I straight out of uni as a graduate, I joined Kantar in their world panel division, and I spent four years kind of working with.

Big FMCG brands like Orbitons and Red Bull and Innocent Smoothies kind of working with them to, you know, understand and empower them to have the data to take to retailers and get space they want on shelf, inform the new product development. You know, it was a great place to learn how to draw a story out of data.

Instead of spent four years there, Learned a lot, worked across a lot of different clients and then came to a point where I really wanted to move to a business that was it's much smaller and making some real waves in the way that And the way that data was being collected. So I was looking around for a while and then Influencer sort of came on my radar and then naturally when you start looking into Influencer, Wailer comes up pretty quickly.

Well, they're not

[00:30:05] Matt Celuszak: small anymore. When did they announce 86 new positions?

[00:30:10] Chloe Ashe: Yeah. The growth is pretty insane. And we're, you know, the partnership with you guys has definitely helped us accelerate that. It's, you know, helping our clients constantly learn and improve. It only brings them back for more. So we are very grateful for everything you've helped us do over the last year.

So thank you.

[00:30:27] Matt Celuszak: Yeah, it's our pleasure. Now, can you leave us with a closing thought of where you think, kind of, the next science of is going to come from?

[00:30:36] Chloe Ashe: Oh gosh, you put me on the spot on that one.

[00:30:39] Matt Celuszak: I am. But where do you think influencer marketing is going and measurement in general or behavioral insights?

Do you think it's going to proliferate into the more mainstream or is it going to stay niche?

[00:30:49] Chloe Ashe: I think it will go more mainstream. I think it's a really interesting area to watch at the minute. I mean, we're seeing all the different social platforms Instagram launching reels, YouTube launching shorts, TikTok are looking at launching, you know, lives that are going to last.

Two, three hours and everyone sort of branching out from what they're really good at. And so I think there's going to be a really interesting sort of moment in the next sort of year or so when the platforms start to homogenize a bit more. And I think measurement is going to be really important because we're already seeing between Instagram and TikTok that there are nuances and that they can be used for different reasons.

So I think we really need to kind of keep an eye on that and, and not let our clients think that they can post the same thing across their social platforms because they are, you know, they're unique and we should keep them that way.

[00:31:42] Matt Celuszak: Well, thank you again. Sounds like plenty of opportunity for brands to win and battlegrounds and plenty of opportunity for new science projects.

So thanks again for sharing everything. Really appreciate it.

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